The Girl with the Needle – Interview with Film Director / Co-writer Magnus von Horn and Actor Vic Carmen Sonne

The following transcript has been edited and condensed for clarity:

This is a very touching but a horror movie also because of the topic. So, what was the necessity to bring this story nowadays?

Magnus von Horn: Whenever you feel there is a connection between what you see or are told in this story, there is a connection to the contemporary world and to specific countries or societies, then it's [an] urgent matter. I wish this film could just be a story from the past, but it is not. And that's the horror of it. I mean, on the one hand, what made the story interesting in the beginning, the first time I heard about it, or what the story is inspired by, the crimes of Dagmar Overbye and how horrible they sound. But then you see that you understand, of course, and that there is a society surrounding that, and there is a reason for it, in a way. To think that Dagmar didn't just kidnap babies to kill them, but women gave children to her because they couldn't deal with them and had no other option.

Magnus von Horn: And in that sense, I think it connects to our world where, in some parts, women still have no freedom of choice or can't make this decision themselves because it's illegal. And by just having that, you open up for different kinds of shadow societies or shadow alternatives. And that happens even today. But yeah, the horror part of this story is that it connects with today's world. I mean, of course, it is different. But I live in Poland, where some of the most restrictive abortion laws were introduced in 2020. That's four years ago. And in other parts of the world, the change is so dynamic, and we're still talking about it. And it's a very, very political discussion.

Vic, when you received the script and read about your character, what did you think or feel? What were your thoughts?

Vic Carmen Sonne: Yeah, I got extremely moved by my TikTok feed after Trump was reelected because there were so many young women and men who were just crying and really sort of scared and fearing for the future and for what would potentially happen if they got pregnant and so on. So, as you've said, Magnus, that's the horror. Yeah. To answer your question, I liked it when I first read the script. Actually, when I first received an email from Magnus just talking a bit about the project before the first casting, it just spoke to me on a level where that was a little bit beyond the intellectual interest in the topic or in the story of the script. Not validating whether it was good or incredible, but just feeling a sincere excitement and a little bit possession of wanting to be a part of this together with Magnus. And yeah, and that's just the most incredible, grateful thing to have happened as an actor when you get in touch with material and with people like that.

Magnus, as you mentioned already, even though your film is set in the post-World War era, it's still relevant because of the lack of autonomy over women's bodies due to restrictive abortion laws, be it in Poland, be it in the US, be it elsewhere in the world. But when you set out to co-write this film and when you set out to direct this film, was it always your intention to come up with period drama that's relevant in today's time? Or was it your intention to just recreate this story loosely inspired by a serial killer? What was your initial intention while going about with the film and the sponsor?

Magnus von Horn:  Well, it works like this — this film has been developed for many, many years, and in the beginning, everything is not so aware, and you find the world around you in the film, in the development. You start seeing it, you start seeing connections — that is what development is. I think on one level; it's at one moment we feel it so strongly that it's so present in this story, and that rather makes us decide not that we don't need to underline it anymore. Because the audiences will find such strong connections, and we don't need to focus on it to push it because it's going to be there automatically. And that's also very comforting, I feel, because the job eventually is to tell the story of Karoline, who is living in those times and fighting to get a better life, and has all these adventures, and goes to all these different places, and wears all these different dresses and becomes all these different people. We need to always just be true and focus on that story, and the meanings of the film become even stronger if we stop trying to push them onto the audience because they will so much exist in the material anywhere. So, to answer the question, I feel our job is rather to trust the story and not think so much about the meanings because, in the end, it's almost the only thing we discuss in meetings like this, and you are doing also a great job and seeing those meanings and finding them and bringing them out.

Thank you for your answer, Magnus; it made a lot of sense. I had a question for Vic as well — this is a film that doesn't have explicit shock value, but it definitely has a lot of moments of tension, and it kind of disturbs the viewer in a good way. It doesn't sensationalize anything. But while filming this, especially towards the second half, when the tension starts building up, whether it's with your character's husband or your character's child. So, what were some of the most intense moments during filming for you?

Vic Carmen Sonne: It's a good question. I think that there is intensity in almost all of the scenes, which essentially is extremely exciting for me to get to do something where that's the case; that's not always the case. In the middle of shooting, I got a massage once or twice a week, just to keep ready and soft, and she's just like, what happened? You know what I mean? She's like, what have you been doing? She thought that I might have been sort of like an Olympic sport or something. So, she could not understand all the tensions. But I think that's because of not one-in-one necessarily the physical stuff that you see on the screen, but just the state of mind that Karoline is in because she's so hyper-aware of her surroundings in almost every scene. These antennas are just picking up on every little thing that's going on around her so that she can find the best way to make the most out of the situation and connect to or avoid whoever person is in the room with her.

Vic Carmen Sonne: It's really hard to answer the most intense scene because it's also really exciting to make. It was very intense the day when there was a scene in Karoline's bedroom in the back of Dagmar's candy store. I don't know how much I can spoil, but basically, when toward the end, Dagmar comes home. I remember that it was extremely emotionally intense, but at the same time, it was the most fulfilling three hours that I've ever had on a film set. And the way that Magnus and I especially worked during that scene, I remember, just like you remember [Magnus], when I was just like lying down like... between takes, and you're like, "Are you good? Yeah, okay, keep going." There's a reason why I connected with this film in the first place. It's because that kind of challenge and to let go of control and those emotions are a privilege to me, too.

Magnus, in an interview with IndieWire, you say you didn't want the film to become a social realism film. Why were you interested in shooting in that kind of movie?

Magnus von Horn: No, I mean, I didn't want it to be this. This film should not only be social realistic — it should have an element of creation to the form and the style of the film. We also thought about it like a fairy tale, and we wanted to have those layers that also made it attractive visually, in the soundtrack, the sound design, and in the framing or camera solutions, [which] also made it entertaining in our point of view. That's also something that helps the audiences to take part in this story, which has a lot of very horrible elements. We wanted to find a way to make the film so we could take it in, accept it, or, in a way, enjoy it. But of course, not to make it sweet, in this way to be true to what it's about, but also to make it an adventure of kind.

So, apart from a woman having autonomy over her body, does the film also discuss the indirect damages of war? Bad parenting. If Peter didn't fight World War I, then none of this would have happened in Karoline's life. So how much did you want The Girl with the Needle to be an anti-war film, as much as a female bodily autonomy film?

Magnus von Horn: Yeah, but it is a different war than what we are used to watching. The war is not traditional, but the war Karoline is part of, it's also a war, right? In the end, she comes out on the other side equally, let's say damaged or something, as Peter is coming out from his war, and then they can meet again and kind of connect, so in that way, and absolutely in that sense an anti-war film, yes.

What was your intention in making this film in black and white? Did you want to enhance the time period that the film is set in? Or was it because we had certain gore scenes in the film? Was it for that? And what references did you use to create the 1920s once again?

Magnus von Horn:  The black and white is part of this form and style as well, but it is also very fitting because we wanted to tap into the references or use references and be inspired by films and photography from the time when the film is set, and that's also a playful kind of way to think about filmmaking. And it's a way for also to be creative about the visuals and to be challenged as filmmakers and to try to come up with a style that will be inspiring and maybe a bit fresh for audiences to just not freeride on whatever was made before or to question what has been made before. For us, it was important to think about how often we believe the costumes and the images we see when we are supposed to look at, let's say, the world or historical drama. And often, it's not about believing it. Put on a mustache and a hat and a dress and put on old wallpaper, and we're supposed to buy it. But everybody knows it's just like a game. Sometimes that's a silly game, but sometimes that's okay, and that's great. But we wanted to try to make this a believable image. And that's also like, yeah, it's a challenge, it's fun, It's interesting.

Vic Carmen Sonne: Briefly, when Magnus first told me that you were thinking about and kind of leaning towards doing black and white, I was like, Oh, no, that's so boring. And then, I tried to convince Magnus not to. You're like, no, I don't think it's going to be so boring. And then, a couple of weeks later, you showed me some photos, like inspirational photos of some the DOP had been taking out on location. And I was like, okay, I take it back. It looks super interesting, but I don't know. I just thought all of a sudden, my comprehension of this was that it would just be like as you see me in the webcam now, just flat, black and white. And all of a sudden, I was like, okay, I see. Because there's this fairy tale, otherworldly, supernatural element in the way that Magnus and Michal designed this imagery. It really gives a lot of depth and entertainment value, I would even say.

Magnus von Horn: You know, lots of people think it's difficult to finance it in black and white as well. I think we could have gotten a couple of million more to shoot it, if we would have made it color. But in the end, the film would also struggle much more to find an audience in color. It has a stronger voice in its existence in black and white, and we could give it a stronger voice also by shooting it in black and white; we get so much more of [out of] the locations we can use. And we have to paint fewer walls because it's black and white. We don't care if it's a pink building; if it's in color, we would have to be like, "Oh, but the pink, what do we do with the pink?."

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