Traumatika – Interview with Filmmakers Pierre Tsigaridis and Maxime Rancon

Listen here. The following transcript has been edited and condensed for clarity:

Hello, I'm Shaurya Thapa from Borrowing Tape, and today I've joined with director Pierre Tsigaridis and producer and screenwriter Maxime Rancon. This is the team behind the new horror film Traumatika. It's in the name itself. I mean that as a compliment to you guys because I watched this film last night, and safe to say I slept with the lights on, so good job on that. Pierre and Maxime, welcome to the podcast. It's good to have you here.

Pierre Tsigaridis
Thank you, man. Thank you for having us.

Maxime Rancon
Thank you for having us.

 

So my first question to both of you is that Traumatika doesn't pull any punches when it comes to violence, gore, and disturbing content, but it also digs deep into the emotional impact that childhood abuse and trauma can have on us, even when we grow up. How did you walk that fine line between making something that's so violently disturbing, but also emotionally sensitive? Were there any moments when you felt that we're pushing this too far, or this feels like we're exploiting trauma? Were there any moments like that?

Pierre Tsigaridis
Well, it's funny you say that. The movie premiered at FrightFest last year, and the movie is obviously — because of the subject matter — polarizing and divisive. That is the question that some people ask: Is it too much? I think the movie is a horror film, so it's not going to be for everyone. We're just horror fans, and we wanted to make something that would create a strong reaction, and I think we did. There is a fine line. I would like to say that we still use a lot of the horror tropes as a foundation to talk about things that are very difficult to tackle, and we use the demonic metaphor to try to package this heavier underlying subject. A lot of horror films do that. Maybe with our film, we amplified it and took it to another level because we really put trauma in the name. It's the consequence of trauma at the forefront of the film, but at the same time, we package it as a very traditional horror film in the themes, imagery, and tropes. I hope we walked the fine line. I hope we'll see what people think about that.

Maxime Rancon
We say all the time that we watch movies sometimes, and we're like: Well, they're doing something that's crazier than us in the end. Just trying to make good scares, and some of them have to be walking that line to still surprise the audiences.

 

You guys just mentioned how you also relied on some classic horror tropes: the demonic presence, the metaphor that you talked about. So that reminds me of the opening scene in this film, which opens with a cursed artifact that has been passed on for ages. Were you inspired by any classic horror, like The Exorcist or The Omen, for building this mythology around this curse?

Pierre Tsigaridis
Absolutely, exactly. That's exactly the reference. The reference is to give it an ancient aspect to that evil and to do the evil, the demonic presence, the metaphor of trauma. So the fun fact with this opening, actually, we had the idea. That's one of the last things we shot. It was an idea that we had after having most of the film, and I think it was cool because it was a way for us to interact with horror fans, because they would know. What's good with horror films is that fans are usually really aware of what's been done before, and same thing with the creators. We know what's been done before, and we use those tropes as a way to quickly connect with the audience and to establish a communication, in a way, with the audience. I think this opening is exactly that. It also shows the universal aspect of evil that's across cultures, across generations, across countries, and across time.

Probably, The Exorcist; that was the goal in the opening of The Exorcist. It's like, oh, this is such an ancient evil, and the devil has been around for so long. We want to do the same thing with us, the metaphor of trauma and the metaphor of people have been experiencing horrible things forever, and how trauma is also generational, and how it's almost like a hereditary aspect to it, where it's just one generation after another, We wanted to make it like a disease that we actually set out in the movie. It's just something that contaminates everything, something that spreads. So an opening like that is, yeah, just like The Omen. Last but not least, it's an homage to all those films that we love from the 70s, where it opens. It just creates a mood.

 

It reminded me of Evil Dead as well, Book of the Dead, and how it passes from generation to generation, as I said. But Traumatika also features several child actors in some really dark situations. How did you manage, you know, to get genuine reactions out of these child actors while not traumatizing them too much? [Laughs]

Pierre Tsigaridis
Yeah, well, also, we did not traumatize any child, any children. So, yeah, I wanna mention that. But this was difficult. That was supposed to be a challenge for sure, because they couldn't see anything. They can't. They couldn't see anything on set, but we also can't really say what was happening on set. We had to work with metaphors again. We had to work with images. That they could tell them information that was not what was happening, but that could suggest a reaction from them.

For example, there's the child who is in the little cave. I was telling her —she doesn't like bees, for example. — "Oh, to be scared, think of bees around you that are about to sting you" — that's what she could give me. What is it that we can work with where we can both have the child and us, we can have a common emotion, but it doesn't come from the same place. They wouldn't know. They wouldn't know they're, for example, in danger of death or facing a demon necessarily. It was really difficult in the sense that, for example,
Rebekah Kennedy with her makeup or Max with your makeup, we wouldn't be able to really be in face-to-face acting with the children. We would have to — with camera work and things like that — get the right reaction and then have the makeup; never at the same time. So that was a challenge for sure.

Maxime Rancon
Especially with some of the demon makeup that we could not really remove or hide in any way.

Pierre Tsigaridis
Yeah, you'd have to hide your face sometimes with a towel on. We've had scenes with a towel or a sheet where the kid couldn't see the demon, and we could still have a back-and-forth, and that was challenging for sure. But I think it ended up working out pretty good on screen, so we're super grateful for their performances.

 

That's exciting to hear. I would love to see a behind-the-scenes documentary of the making of this film. But actually, both of you, I mean, because you brought up Rebekah Kennedy, and both of you worked with Rebekah Kennedy in your previous feature, Two Witches, which was also a horror. Moving on from Two Witches to Traumatika, how has that journey been? What have been the challenges, as indie horror filmmakers?

Maxime Rancon
Well, as indie horror filmmakers, just making a movie is a challenge in itself. So we've worked with extremely limited resources on Two Witches and on Traumatika; more limited than anyone could probably ever imagine. We've had to find ways to make things work. To be able to shoot and reshoot things. It's been a challenge the whole way through, really.

Pierre Tsigaridis
Yeah, I think the challenges of Two Witches and Traumatika were the same challenges, like limited resources, limited time, trying to reach the finish line, and still sticking to our vision and trusting ourselves. But yeah, the challenges are pretty much the same on both films.

Maxime Rancon
We might have had more doubts during the edits originally at the beginning of Traumatika as well.

Pierre Tsigaridis
I think Traumatika was actually more challenging. Also, Two Witches, there's the excitement of making a first film where you really want to go through any obstacle, and then the second one, we have more pressure because now we know what it takes to make a film, we know that we have more experience of how audiences react, and how to get the movie out there. Now we know that most likely someone will see the movie at some point. So more pressure.

 

Can you tell me a bit about the production process of Traumatika? Where did you film this film?

Pierre Tsigaridis
So we shot the film mostly in LA. Different LA areas, Sun Valley, Pasadena. We shot just in LA, basically in Los Angeles.

How long did the production take you?

Pierre Tsigaridis
I think a total of 20 days, roughly, 20 days. We had a few reshoots and a few B-roll days that sometimes I don't count, necessarily. So I think, again, limited resources, and we could have used more time. I think every crew and every production would say the same thing. We love shooting in LA. I think we live in LA and all our cast was based in LA. So it was actually a convenient thing for us to shoot here.

And my last question to you both would be, as you have mentioned, the film first premiered at FrightFest last year. Now, as you said, it had a polarizing response, which kind of surprised me because in FrightFest, usually, there are people who expect disturbing content.

Pierre Tsigaridis
I feel you.

Maxime Rancon
Yeah, we're surprised at that, as well.

 

So it's very exciting to me to hear that the film could polarize audiences even at FrightFest. So I just wanted to ask you my final question: what were some of the weirdest or craziest reactions that you got individually from audience members back then?

Pierre Tsigaridis
Oh, that's an interesting question we haven't had before.

Maxime Rancon
It is.

Maxime Rancon
Like Fright Fest, we were so happy to play on the main screen on a Saturday night, one of the main spots of the festival. We had a full house with a thousand people in the theater, so that was nerve-racking, but at the same time, at the end, because out of a thousand people, that's a big enough sample of the population that you're going to have people that are going to have very, very diverse reactions. I think we really upset about a hundred people.

Pierre Tsigaridis
Oh, really? That many? I thought it was more like 30 people.

Maxime Rancon
Oh, I'm growing it up to 100 because some of them, maybe, were not vocal about it. So out of a thousand, maybe a hundred.

Pierre Tsigaridis
Yeah, so 10%. 10%.

Maxime Rancon
It finished on a standing ovation, really, so people were screaming and everything in the theater. I feel generally it was more well-received. But yeah, a few people, a tiny group really, really hated the movie.

Pierre Tsigaridis
We haven't experienced anything directly to our faces, because obviously, we live in the area of online trolls. I will say, no one would say to our face, but there were some pretty strong reactions for sure. Not necessarily what we would have expected at FrightFest, because like you said, FrightFest is the word Fright in literally the title. It's not called like Romantic Comedy Fest, you know?

Maxime Rancon
[Laughs]

Pierre Tsigaridis
But I think it was good because then, as artists, when you trigger strong reactions like that, it means that you did something that was actually powerful, regardless of whether it's positive or negative.

So clearly, you had an impact on the audience.

Pierre Tsigaridis
It did. It did. It had a bigger impact than I thought, for sure.

Maxime Rancon
Some of them might not survive another day if we don't end our filmmaking careers immediately, so it's that kind of reaction sometimes.

Pierre Tsigaridis
I know, I had bad news for them.

Are you already working on your feature for number three?

Pierre Tsigaridis
Yeah, they'll be offended again.

Maxime Rancon
Oh, yeah.

Pierre Tsigaridis
For sure.

Maxime Rancon
Many and many times over.

Well, I'm glad that there are filmmakers who are ready to disturb their audiences. Thanks a lot for your time, Pierre and Maxime.

Pierre Tsigaridis
Thank you, man.

Best of luck when Traumatika opens in September. Thank you for your time. I hope you have a nice day and not a traumatizing night like I had last night.